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Pogledaj Full Version : Who are the "Croatian" people / tribe?



Željko Zidarić
30th-May-2012, 03:07 AM
In the few centuries before Christ the Croatian lands were populated by various groups including Illyrians, La Tčne culture (Celts), Liburinians, Vlachs, Ostrogoths/eastern Goths. While these groups may have died as civilizations could their genetic remnants still be within us? The answer is YES - we Croatians are still Illyrians, Celts, Slavs and even Phoenicians!

Understanding what it means to be "Croatian" requires an understanding of where the "Croatian" people came from. Who we are is dependent on the Nature / Genetics and Nurture / Culture (hardware and software for the computer geeks). I believe in the socio-anthropologic concept of "tribalism" - that is that we are more at home with our "tribe" than in another tribe. Our haplogroup can be roughly equated to "genetic tribe".

Note: Before I go any further, let me state that I am not a geneticist or anthropologist. I am trying to cobble together a number of different theories into something that is understandable. This is a new field of study with various opinions and to make the issue more complicated Y-DNA classification systems changed recently and some reports use the old system while others use the new system.

What are these Haplogroups? Here is the History.

There were a number of migrations into Europe before the Ice Age. Haplogroups I, R1a and R1b migrated to Europe during the upper paleolithic around 30,000-20,000 BC. Later, neolithic lineages, originating in the Middle East and that brought agriculture to Europe, are present in surprisingly low numbers. The haplogroups J, E and G constitute together less than 15% - significantly lower than other populations in the region.

http://domovod.info/zzimages/hist/genemig1.jpg

During the last Ice Age most of Europe was uninhabitable but there were four habitable refuges into which humans moved into and survived during the Ice Age. Four refuges also became islands where Y-chromosome haplogroups grew stronger. From west to east they are the the refuges are: Iberian (R1b), Balkan - more specifically Dinaric Alps (I), Ukrainian (R1a), and Siberian (N3) refuges. After the Ice Age, humans moved out of the refuges and repopulated Europe. The "Dinaric Refuge" was one of the seeds for repopulating Europe and for that reason we see a high proportion of Haplogroup I in modern day Croatia and BiH.

http://domovod.info/zzimages/hist/genemig2.jpg




Haplogroup I - Paleolithic / Old Europeans

http://domovod.info/zzimages/hist/Haplogroup_I.jpg

Haplogroup I - Paleolithic / Old Europeans - is an ancient haplogroup lineage defined by markers M168, M89 and M170, and descended from a Middle-Eastern clan that migrated northwest into the Balkans and later spread into central Europe. Of all the major haplogroups found in Europe today haplogroup I is considered the only core haplogroup to have originated in Europe. This group exists in Europe only and is fairly widespread, but in relatively small percentages. These people may have been responsible for bringing into western Europe the Gravettian culture about 21,000 – 28,000 years ago. Named after a site in La Gravette, France, the culture used communal hunting techniques, hunted big game with stone tools having a distinctive small, pointed blade, created shell jewelry, used mammoth bones to build their homes, and may have discovered weaving about 25,000 years ago. The expansion of haplogroup I was possibly linked to the spread of Aurignacian and Gravettian cultures, both artistically and technologically advanced. During the Ice Age, descendants were forced into refuges in the Balkans and Iberia, and later recolonized central and northern Europe when the weather turned warmer. Haplogroup I now represents 10 to 45% of the population in most of Europe.

Resources: Genetree (http://www.genetree.com/i) - Genebase (http://www.genebase.com/tutorial/item.php?tuId=12)

The old refuges can still be seen in modern day Haplogroup concentrations
R1b in the West, I in Croatia and R1a in the East

Haplogroup R1a
http://domovod.info/zzimages/hist/Haplogroup_R1a1a.jpg

Haplogroup R1b
http://domovod.info/zzimages/hist/Haplogroup_R1b.jpg

Haplogroup R was a central Asian clan defined by mutation M207, which later produced sub-haplogroup R1 thought to be direct descendant of Cro-Margnon man, defined by mutation M173, moving west into Europe. Haplogroup R1-M173, represented primarily by subgroups R1a1-M17 (Ukrainian refuge) and R1b1b2-M269 (Iberian refuge), became well established in Europe during the Upper Paleolithic Period (Late Stone Age). Once the Ice Age ended haplogroup R would continue to play significant roles in subsequent phases of European history, including the adoption and spread of farming and agriculture, Greek and Roman influences, and the Middle Ages. Currently, R1a1-M17 is rare across Western Europe but is found throughout eastern Europe in countries such as Poland, Hungary, and Ukraine. Today, the highest R1b concentration in Western Europe is found in the Basque Country, where 98 % of native men have this R1b haplogroup. Current inhabitants of Britain and Ireland are closely related to the Basques, reflecting their common origin in this refugial area.

Resources: Genetree (http://www.genetree.com/r) - Genebase (http://www.genebase.com/tutorial/item.php?tuId=11)

Today genetically, on the Y chromosome line, a majority (>85%) of Croats belong to one of the three major European Y-DNA haplogroups -- Haplogroup I (~45%), Haplogroup R1a (~27%) and Haplogroup R1b (~13%).

While Modern Croatians have a predominantly "Slavic Culture", genetically for the most part only a minority of Croats are of Slavic descent as indicated by haplogroup R1a.


The Migrations

The Haplogroup I (more specifically modern day I2a2) was the original "Refuge Population". This tribe could be the original Illyrians. This haplogroup makes up about 45% of the Croatian population.

Following the retreat of the glaciers, the R1b group started to move out of the West. This tribe could the origins of the Celts. Celtic genetic heritage comprises about 15% of the population.

The next groups to at to our genetic mix were the Teutons (I1) in the northern parts and the Phoenicians (J2) in the southern part - each contributing about 5% to the mix.

The Last migration and genetic influence was the Slavs (R1a) which today make up about 30% of the population.


Modern Slavic Croatians came to Croatia in somewhere 610-640 AD. According to the most widely accepted Slavic theory the Croatian tribe moved from the area north of the Carpathians and east of the river Vistula (referred to as White Croatia) and migrated into the western Dinaric Alps. Upon their arrival to georaphic Croatia and BiH, one theory states that Croats emerged as some kind of an elite caste of Slavic-speaking warriors, consequently spreading their influence, thus their name, over much of Dalmatia and parts of Pannonia (North Western part of Croatia).

This is a good summary video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w--OcsEDxmY



R1a/R1b in north and west / I2a in the South

Genetic distribution is not homogeneous across Croatia.

The North and West parts of Croatia have high concentration of R1a and R1b
The South/Adriatic has higher concentration of I2a

Source: Y chromosomal heritage of Croatian population and its island isolates (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v11/n7/full/5200992a.html)

What this means is that while the White Croatians (R1a) arrived at the Adriatic Coast the bulk settled in the more fertile North and West. Or maybe the Dalmatinci/Hercegovci (I2a) kept them out.

This might be an indicator for the clearly different mentality/personality of the Northern and Southern Croatians.

Željko Zidarić
30th-May-2012, 03:16 AM
Po istraživanju Semino i sur., na 58 muškaraca iz Hrvatske nađene su sljedeće skupine kromosoma Y:

* haplotip Eu7: 44,83%
* haplotip Eu19: 29,31%
* "neolitski haplotipovi" (Eu4, Eu9, Eu10, Eu11): 13,79%
* haplotip Eu18: 10,34%
* haplotip Eu16: 1,73

Doseljavanje stanovništva s haplotipom Eu18. Prvi preci današnjih Europljana stigli su u Europu iz pravca južnog Urala prije otprilike 40,000-35,000 godina. Pripadali su vrsti homo sapiens i bili nositelji haplotipa Eu18. Budući da se ovaj haplotip danas u najvećem postotku nalazi među Baskima, nazvan je baskijskim haplotipom. Ti doseljenici proširili su Europom kulturu Aurignac.

http://domovod.info/zzimages/hist/Dolazak_Eu18.gif

Doseljavanje stanovništva s haplotipom Eu7. Nešto prije početka ledenog doba s Bliskog Istoka, preko Grčke te uz sjeverne obale Jonskog i Jadranskog mora, stiže nova grupa stanovništva koje razvija napredniju Gravettian kulturu te se s obala Jonskog i Jadranskog mora širi na sjever i sjeverozapad. Novi doseljenici naprednije kulture nose haplotip Eu7 i potiskuju starije stanovništvo manje razvijene kulture. Po svemu sudeći, ovaj val doseljavanja nije stigao dalje od srednje Europe.

Otprilike u isto vrijeme sjeverno od Crnog mora mutacijom iz Eu18 nastaje haplotip Eu19 kojega danas u velikom postotku imaju stanovnici srednje i istočne Europe, a osobito je raširen među slavenskim narodima zbog čega je nazvan slavenskim haplotipom.

http://domovod.info/zzimages/hist/Dolazak_Eu7.gif

Povlačenje stanovništva na jug u vrijeme ledenog doba. Pri nastupanju ledenog doba stanovništvo se povlači prema jugu na područja toplije klime, a zbog širenja područja pod ledom razina se mora spuštala i bila je oko 120 metara niža od današnje razine.

Stanovništvo s većinskim haplotipom Eu18 seli se prema jugozapadu na područje uz Atlantski ocean, stanovništvo s većinskim haplotipom Eu7 povlači se na jug, na obale Jadranskog i Sredozemnog mora, a na istoku se stanovništvo s većinskim haplotipom Eu19 povlači na obale Crnog mora. Ova tri područja nazivaju se "utočištima". Iz njih će se nakon povlačenja ledenog pokrova stanovništvo seliti nazad na sjever.

http://domovod.info/zzimages/hist/Dolazak_Eu3.gif

Širenje stanovništva nakon ledenog doba. Krajem ledenog doba i podizanjem razine Jadranskog mora formirala se iznimno razvedena hrvatska obala. Da se nije formirala tako duga obala, genetička struktura Hrvata bila bi drukčija i može se pretpostaviti da bi u toj strukturi bilo manje hrvatskog haplotipa, a više neolitskih haplotipova. Inače, haplotipovi koje je neposredno poslije ledenog doba imalo stanovništvo uz obale mora danas su brojniji u genetičkoj strukturi Europljana. Ta je pojava objašnjena potrebama u ishrani stanovništva prije početka proizvodnje hrane.

http://domovod.info/zzimages/hist/Dolazak_Eu4.gif

Željko Zidarić
30th-May-2012, 03:21 AM
Dinaric Croats are the "Most European" people. Croatians definitely are different (more European) from the Serbs. While both have a strong base of the "Palaeolithic" European-specific haplogroup I, the Serbs have a significantly higher Eastern Influence.


Some studies show these haplotype differences:


For the Serbs the "Eastern Genes" (E1b1b + J2 + T (+ L)) = 41% of the population! While it is only 11% for Croatians.
Croatians can be up to 60% Illyrian + Celtic while the Serbs are only about 35%.
Slavs make up 30% of the Croatian mix, but 15% of the Serbian mix.

Another study shows the following

http://www.domovod.info/zzimages/hist/Haplogroup0.jpg
Source: Europedia (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml)

It is clear from these genetic studies that the theory of a modern Iranian origin has little genetic support. Modern-day Iranians have a significantly different haplogroup distribution, although Iranic speaking communities have lived in eastern Europe. We do know that humans migrated out of Africa through the Fertile Crescent and that the Haplogroup R1b moved into Ukraine (map above).



http://www.domovod.info/zzimages/hist/HaplogroupJ.jpg

Mesolithic Europeans
I1 = pre-Germanic (Nordic)
I2b = pre-Celto-Germanic
I2a = Sardinian, Basque
I2b = Dinaric, Danubian

Mesolithic Eurasians
R1a = Balto-Slavic, Mycenaean, Greek, Macedonian
R1b = Italic, Celtic, Germanic, Hittite, Armenian
G2a = Caucasian, Greco-Anatolia

Neolithic, Bronze & Iron Age Immigrants
E1b1b = North & East African, Near Eastern, Balkanic
J2 = Mesopotamian, Minoan Greek, Pheonician
T (+ L) = Near Easterrn, Egyptian

One of the funniest stories I read about online while researching this was about a very proud Serbian guy that did a genetic test to determine lineage and then found out that he is a genetic "Albanian".

More reading

Wikipedia - Haplogroup I2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29) - Haplogroup J (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29) - Haplogroup R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_%28Y-DNA%29)

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